Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Chancy Yardbird on July 10, 2012 at 3:47am

WHICH OLD HORSE SERVES WHOM?

Old horses and old money should work for or with us. We should never work for them. Unless of course they have served us well. Then it is up to us to attend to their interests. Never just assume someone else will.

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Permalink Reply by Phillip P. Foreman on July 10, 2012 at 1:35pm

I don't think that the American people are upset with the idea of taxes rather the idea that the system of collecting is not fair nor reasonable to deal with. Flat tax rates and progressive systems both have their problems but either would tremendously simplify the mechanics of collecting and reporting. Given that and a mandate that congress "must" live within a balanced budget and may assign or raise taxes only with a 100 percent approval of the body or by popular majority with all citizens casting a vote. Yep, that would do it for me.

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Permalink Reply by Quisno-Son of the Republic on July 13, 2012 at 9:03pm

well you say the film is wrong? well look what taxation has done to you today. Does it feed you/ does it protect you? does it provide for the common good of man?
I don't even need to watch the video to understand that taxes on a person is an enslavement tool. property can be taxed only if it does not have the confiscatory clause present in all laws today. When you push people off their lands now you have a destitute individual.
Companies,can be taxed Corporations as in the early 1800's should be reigned in as they have always grown to become so large that they control the people But they are needed from time to time. Make them non living under penalty of death! Why? because look throughout history Corporations only lead to Socialism, communism, You need and must establish Co-ops like in the early years for in them was the power of the people to maintain good practices of farming and city councils for the elections of proper people into your councils 1 term no more than 2. Taxes on roads come from sales. if you want to move commerce then you need good roads.Gas, oil, Hay, Animal grains but never taxes on a persons shoulders for always you have what you've got today.
The only way to enslave is through the taxation on ones work. Not business But what you yourself produce each day.
In the Constitution is what they call said taxation on excise,and goods coming into this country.
States needed money for their militia. there were Bonds for roads ,schools and such those were taxes usually on property.
Governments do they really need monies for standing armies? The founders said no. they were to last for only 2 years after any altercations. States were to maintain their militias. The root problem was that Laws were made to enslave a people to an idea that government could protect this country.
from those very thoughts came what we have today. Individuals whose need for power exceeds others needs to be just left alone.

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Permalink Reply by LADYBUG on July 10, 2012 at 8:37pm

As citizens of this great nation, we should be proud to pay our taxes which go towards
"the ORIGINAL PURPOSES, such as Military Defense" and "building roads, bridges, paying firemen and police, and so on, things that "promote the General welfare"

FORCED "charitable giving/donations" through "Taxing to GIVE it to another, that is generally wrong, hence we generally dislike welfare and other such "wealth redistribution." and it is "robbery/theft/stealing".

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Permalink Reply by Keith Broaders on July 11, 2012 at 3:50am

Paying direct unapportioned taxes violate the Constitution and are just another name for extortion. Whenever any persson, corporation or government takesthe property of an individual without their consent they have violated one of the most basic laws of Nature ad Natures God. A legitimate governmentcan not punish its citizens for stealing the property of their fellow countrymen while they continue picking the pockets of the people. There are laws that govern the Universe and one of those laws taking another person's property without their consent is morally wrong and repugnant to our Creator. If the reason the funds are needed are just, people would voluntarily support the government. Paying taxes that are spent to redistribute wealth and buy the votes for politicians is fraud. If you or I perpetrate fraud we are prosecuted, it a Congressman does it he gets re-elected. I am sorry to say that like so many others you have been conned into believing that certain kinds of theft are acceptable.

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Permalink Reply by Don Wolf on July 11, 2012 at 4:01am

I agree with you both. A fair tax is needed to do the things that governments do. ALL should pay the tax though. I don't think an "income tax" is what it should be called though. Government Operations Tax? Something like that. Yes, based on income, no matter how you arrive at that income. If you are government subsided, then comes off the top, welfare included. No loopholes, no deductions... just a flat tax. But, as you know, the powers that be would subjigate that and find ways to pervert it so you are made to pay more than your share. such as in the above mentioned FORCED tax. I absolutely hate to be forced to do anything. being FORCED to pay for someone to be promiscuous and then paying for an abortion is pushing the limits to the very end. I am NOT going to pay for these things. What the hell is wrong with the asses in Washington anyway. The people that we (supposedly) elected to run this country have all gone quite mad. If you were to tell this as a story to someone who didn't know what was going on, they would think you were lying or insane. I mean, look how much we have taken already and we have done nothing. What is it going to take? Sorry, frustration is taking over.

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Permalink Reply by Keith Broaders on July 11, 2012 at 4:32am

In my opinion the so called Fair Tax Tax is an oxymoron. It is like the term Military Intelligence or Jumbo Shrimp. Taxes should be apportioned to the states based on their population. Large states should pay more for the defencse of our nation than the small states. Any taxes that are needed to pay for essential services should be collected by the states. kind of like A Fair Tax is a Tax that is authorized by the Constitution. A direct tax on the people is prohibed in the Constitution.

The Preamble states that the Constitution is to provide for the Common Defense and to promote the General Welare.

It is not the responsibility of the National government to provide Specific Welfare benefits to select groups or individuals. Bt definition General Welfare is supposed to benefit everyone not just certain groups or individuals.

The National Government and the Central Planners create totalitarian governments. Hitler and Stalin both had the intentions of providing for the greater good of the greater number. It is immoral in my opinion to take from Peter to give to Paul.

The National Government should be confined to the power and authority granted to it by the Constitution and should allow the states exercise their right to collect taxes for the legitimate needs of the residents of their respective states.

I repeat that Direct Unapportioned Taxes are unconstitutional,illegal and immoral. Taxes that are authorized by Constitution are both necessary and proper and the National government should only be permitted to collect taxes to provide for the Common Defense. All other services should be provided by the cities,counties and states and they should be the ones collecting the taxes.

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Permalink Reply by Don Wolf on July 11, 2012 at 4:39am

Agree. I think your answer is better than mine. Yes, local and state governments know their needs better and should collect their operational expenses (taxes). When taxes are paid to National governments that can withold "funding" back to the states it becomes blackmail.

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Permalink Reply by Phillip P. Foreman on July 11, 2012 at 10:10am

Keith with respect to "Universal Laws" the Bible tells us that a Priest of the order of Malchezdik (spelling) informed Abrahm that he would pay a tith of all he owned, that being a tenth. Jesus drew a coin from the water and said that we were to render unto Caesar that which is Caesars. We are also admomished to obey the laws of the land. For me those scriptures override all other doctrines including the Constitution of the US. Asking our government to make roads, armies, space shuttels, etc..; without taxes is akin to asking Israel to make bricks without straw. Might be possible, but damn tough.

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Permalink Reply by Keith Broaders on July 11, 2012 at 12:19pm

The Constitution does not authorize most of the things that the government does. The government was created to protect the God given rights of the people, not to build roads and bridges. The Constitution does not authorize funding the space race. The states and the people can do for ourselves the things that need to be done. The Bible tells us in the Ten Commandments that we are not supposed to steal. When the government takes from us to pay for things we don't want and don't need, they are violating the laws of nature and nature's God.
If the government officials would honor their oath and only do the things that were delegated to them in the Constitution we would be able to restore the Constitution and the Republic for which it stood.

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Permalink Reply by Quisno-Son of the Republic on July 14, 2012 at 8:48pm

the tith was to promote mans work in gods benefit. most of that was to feed the poor and help the needy. the statement that all things to Caesar was about his need to Tax his people into slavery. read farther in that scripture.
no! as was set down into the constituion it was up to the states to tax not the efforts of individuals but the products they made. for in those taxes the people have power over the government but on personal taxes we must remember that that is the way to ward slavery under mandated taxation on what one man can produce . And even God was against that.
Yes we need money to run civilization but today very few realize that for one set of people to take from another and demand that allowance; the leaders who take from the one and give to the other also enrich themselves on the backs of both, leaving both penniless Thomas Jefferson said as much..

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Permalink Reply by Chancy Yardbird on July 11, 2012 at 1:53pm

This story of the farmer losing a horse and finding himself in need and the community finding hemselves in need to help is a good example of what is both

right and wrong in society.

Kieth,
I hope you don't mind how I comment or reply or expound on the story. I don't mean to clog up your thread so tell me to and I'll erase.

So far in the story, The only things known is that Fred has two horses, Maynard has a dead horse, they are both farmers and need horses to ploww and do other

agriculture things like bring food to their community. So iust as Maynard needs a horse, so do the people, unless they have another affordable source. Fred's

farm product seems to have been affordable and of course if more people need more food then Fred will have to do more or charge more. The people probably

know that the risk of inflated food prices are high if Maynard can't farm. So there is more than kindness at play in their desire to take a horse and give a

horse. And yes, stealing is wrong!

Now, let's us say that among the good town's people we find a business man named,,,, Rom N. Cider. Rom's business is named Reasonable Solutions Inc. And

trades on the local market as (RSI). Rom is a pretty popular guy and many of the townfolk have bought shares of RSI and recieve a decent dividend from the

performance of the company. Rom and the community/ shareholders also pay a decent tax on the earnings of the company.

Rom calls for an open meeting and invites Fred, Maynard, and the leading horse sales and service rep to attend calling it a fact finder/ solutions proposal

meeting.. At the meet, it is learned that Fred and maynard paid $300 for horses at the local horse barn. And that Fred was fortunate to have met a traveling

horse salesman from far far away who sold Fred his second horse for $180. The Horse experts in the meeting all agreed that all three horses were top of the

line hard working healthy animals the last time each had seen them. So the cause of death of Maynard's animal is unknown. Hmmmmm. many begin thinking,,,,,

hmmmm unknown risk. hmmm.

After a short break in the proceeding where the crowd discuss among themselves all sorts of opinion and ideas, the meeting is called back to order and Rom N.

Cider makes a proposal.

Mr. horseshack, I propose that you sell Maynard a horse for $80, Rom says.
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.
.
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"NO! Absolutely not" replied Mr. Horseshack. "I'm not in the welfare business I'm in the local horse storage and service business. I have no horses for sale

at $80. My price for horses when and if I have em for sale is $300. Today I have none and can sell none." He comtinued.

"Do you also buy horses at the price of $200" asked Rom. "heck no. I don't pay a penny more that $100 for a good strong healthy plow and farm critter!" was

Mr' Horshacks reply.

"Thank you very much for your honest consideration, Mr. Horseshack. I do hope we can do business in the future" Stated Rom. At that he ended the meeting and

asked the available shareholders to stick around a few minutes and then escorted the quests to the door thanking them all for attending.

Turning now to the RSI share holders Rom Says "Ladies and gentlemen" As ceo of RSI, I intend to act on the facts we' know and have learned and believe their

is a reasonable solution to the local horse shortage. There will be risk and expense. some unknown and some known, Staff will be researching all aspects of

risk as steps are taken over the next few days to solve the issues and take advantage of any opportunity in both a legal and moral way". Then he said " Mr.

Typeandpress, would you please release my previous statement to your readers in the name of full disclosure" Rom asked a remaining shareholder. "Sure will,

Mr. Cider" was the reply.

Stay tuned for the next episode.

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